WASSUP FAMILY!!!
Last week on FB, I came across a wonderful discussion and debate between Head coach Ras of ATACXGYM CAPOEIRA, and Professora Amazonas of GRUPO LIBERDADE DE CAPOERIA
A lot of times on the internet, you'll find such discussions turn into childish arguments where grown individuals hurl the nastiest insults they can think of to each other... People who in many cases have NEVER MET, and DON'T KNOW EACH OTHER.
But this one was very good, the people involved were very respectful, and a lot of information was shared.
It all started when Professora Amazonas posted this wonderful video on her facebook group's page:
In response, Head Coach Ras posted this video:
Professora Amazonas was a little put off about a comment coach Ras made in that video, and replied:
It's very interesting of your perception of "cute" stuff in the roda. Learn the (rules of the) game and history to exploit the opportunists as you see fit and necessary... inside or outside of the roda. "
Josh Rivera responded:"Josh Rivera But, Professora Amazonas it's what our ancestors did. Gotta love the interwebs!" and again Josh said: " I've watched quite a few of his vids over the years. Lixo quente." Lixo quente=hot garbage. To which Ras replied:
"Professora Amazonas, Josh Rivera, I see that my comment is being taken out of context, so allow me to explain further. Firstly, I meant nothing whatsoever condescending when I used the word "cute". I believe that a certain person here simply misread me. Second, the comment I made about the "cute stuff in the roda" was in response to several people who denigrated the lethal effectiveness of the martial practice of Mbundu ngolo Kipura which was known and practiced in the area of the Mbundu and Ndongo centuries before the word "Capoeira" was used in any public document in Brasil. Yes...I was DEFENDING the lethality of the martial art that I practice and its lineage. Thirdly, not only do i have direct blood links to the areas that spawned the African martial art later miscalled "Capoeira" by the Portuguese.
Therefore, not only does my knowledge of the art, the history, and the game literally extend to the progenitors whose practice famously predates the literal existence of Brasil, my pursuit of my ph.d. in African Studies and inclusive of this area for special studies also quite thoroughly and comprehensively informs me of many, many specifics attending such times practices and people that directly refute the validity of much of the propaganda that is passed on to the world regarding the "history" of Kipura. Did any of you know that the first known use of the word "Capoeira" in Brasil was in a newspaper published in 1712? I am merely curious.
I mean no disrespect with my query. One of the greatest Mbundu ngolo Kipura warriors of all time is Queen Nzinga, who was born in the 1500's...and part of a African martial lineage that is about 10,000 years old or more...reckoning from this date of 6/24/2014 back to the most ancient records that we have of civilizations in Africa. Therefore we have proof that the composite African martial art form that would continue to shock the world also predated the formation of Brasil by the Portuguese in any way, shape or form.
The current most common form of Capoeira practiced today bears almost zero resemblance to the devastating martial art that predated Getulio Vargas and Mestre Bimba's popular course of instruction via Regional [ but Mestre bimba showed his malicia by retaining and expanding Wh upon parts of its practie with his infamous "Ambush Course" ]. The exercise oriented, beautiful, acrobatic, balletic movements in the cardio centric roda that typifies practice of "Capoeira" post-Bimba has virtually no similarity to the deadly martial skills displayed by the warriors of the Janga Angola frequently called Palmares, and it has almost nothing in common with the devastating skills displayed by the Maltas, the Haitians,and frankly Africans in every area of the world who did not forget their martial lineage and martial practice. This comment by me is in no way meant to disparage anyone, but the historical record is rigorous and irrefutable in this regard.
I will be happy to furnish overwhelming evidence regarding my position and words should anyone doubt a single scintilla of my statements on the matter. I mean that without any arrogance whatsoever. I have simply read the historical record...and I am merely one of literally thousands who are aware of the invincible facts that genuine historical analysis provides us. I am happy to share, should anyone wish to be aware of what genuinely accurate science has to say on this matter..."
Then, Professora Amazonas replied:
AtacxGym thank you for your response in attempt to clarify your point of view and sentiments behind the aforementioned. As I may have not responded as quick as you desire, as duly noted from your attempt to entourage others around this dialogue, I make no apologies for my conversation nor my attentiveness to my responsibilities as a teacher and community member. So, as my "silence" is lifted, there is no need to elude to a "certain person" misreading your statement in which you edited your own work in comparison to "cute stuff in the roda." It is I. Possibly you did not intend to be condescending but edifying to the collective of people who denigrate the lethality of life altering attacks and counterattacks of Capoeira or any Alkebulan martial art?
The key to effective communication is knowing your audience. As a result of respect for the lineage from which I come, genetically and as a student, I do not consider myself a mixed martial artist. It is of my understanding that the oldest records of martial arts in the physical and spiritual date back to people of rich melanin in Africa as it is depicted on the walls of Pyramids. While also eluding to capoeira or capuuera or any of its other (mis)spellings in Portugues, Tupi, Guarani or other language, is not my "only" martial art my research supports irrefutable findings of African martial arts can be temporarily or permanently debilitating. Literature has been destroyed regarding many facets of our history so become an email buddy if you'd like. I like reading historical records as well. Pre and Post Mestre Bimba's era many things have changed beyond laws, health insurance and thus as life expectancy. I refer to this as we can observe any "fight" of Taekwondo versus Taekwondo or Karate versus Karate or anything else pure to itself will loose its lethalness and become a game. Speaking for myself and a few others, I straight up choose not to hospitalize or kill someone in or out of the roda because my life and functions of it are not ultimately threatened. Trust when its a must, I do with some of the "cute" things you see in the roda.
to see this whole discussion, click on the link below:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/557894140895491/permalink/821611541190415/
For some reason, this post was not allowed to post in the grupo of Professora Amazonas Maybe it was the result of one of those inexplicable FB snafus. Anyhow...I now have sufficient time to respond to your post and thank you for displaying some of your knowledge regarding the Afrikan martial arts.
I wish to address directly my concern that far far too many people claim to practice the MARTIAL ART that the Portuguese miscalled "Capoeira" yet in actuality present a noncontact nonmartial art that is more fitness dance fun music and socialization than literally anything else...and certainly not at all centrally concerned with developing functional self defense skills first and foremost, and all other concerns secondly. The reason that I believe that self defense martial skills should be central in the practice of any martial art BUT MOST ESPECIALLY AFRIKAN MARTIAL ARTS is because no martial art can survive the destruction of the martial artist. And nobody can genuinely call themselves martial artists without making the practice of functional self defense skills relative to their martial art the central pursuit of their martial lives and activities.
Furthermore, the preservation of the accurate history, techniques and lore of said martial art is the sole purview and province of the warriors that are both the legitimate cultural inheritors AND active practitioners. This reality makes the preservation of the Afrikan martial arts both particularly difficult and the in depth chronicling of same especially challenging. "Capoeira"...just like any other martial art...can and should be practiced as a martial art centrally, and thereby preserve the actual martial lore skill culture and very heart of this wonderful Afrikan Montu. In precisely the same way that other martial arts are practiced in ways that preserve perpetuate and add to all aspects of their particular warrior art and add to the self defense disciplines as a whole...like Muay Boran, and even the incredible intensity of the training that elite forces like SWAT and the Navy SEALS endure... without the mandatory maiming and death of the practitioners? Kipura can also be practiced and should also be practiced with an accent upon developing self defense skills and wedding thereunto the aesthetic, academic, athletic, acrobatic, fitness, Smai Tawi, social, musical, historical and cultural beauty that the art is famous for.
In other words? The person that practices Capoeira should also be a potent martial artist with genuine, clear, distinct self defense skills which use every weapon available to mind body and spirit [ which is the mandate of and gift from our Kipura warrior ancestors ] to overcome challenges and challengers from within and without, from the martial arena to every aspect and facet of life. Unfortunately, THE PRACTICE of most persons calling themselves "Capoeiristas" is much more in line with essentially Brazilian Taebo, than it is with anything reflective of the practice of Queen Nzinga, Ganga Za, Dutty Boukman, Touissaint Louverture, Besouro, Madame Sataa, Ciriaco, or Waldemar Santana. As for the mixed martial arts? It's my understanding that MMA is literally a sportive term and reflects the modern practices of martial arts that have become famous for their SPORT COMBAT practices oftentimes at the expense of their previous vibrant SELF DEFENSE MARTIAL ARTS practices. This sportive term reflects the common theme of whole martial arts removing their truly martial aspects and instead focusing upon specific ranges and specific styles of engagement. For instance, Brazilian jiujitsu draws its roots from Self Defense Judo. It has blows, weapons defenses, and more. However, due to the overwhelmingly popular ground grappling expression it has gained worldwide, bjj classes are predominantly sports combat oriented toward grappling overwhelmingly and most especially the subcategory of ground grappling submissions.
Just in case any of you out there didn't believe the words you just read, check out this video:
O.K., moving on...
Centuries ago, the NORM for martial arts and REQUIREMENT for martial arts was to be competent IN EVERY RANGE OF SELF DEFENSE aaannd to be proficient with weapons, healing, well educated, etc. There was no focus on one skill set not just at the expense of other martial skill sets, but also almost BY WHOLLY IGNORING other skill sets. Imo, the true Kipura warrior is highly adept at every form of self defense, inclusive of evasion, elusiveness, escape, pre-contact strategies tactics and proper reading of whatever environment the Kipura warrior inhabits, etc. Not only did our ancestors famously master self defense at every range, use fist and hand blows, grappling chokes and joint manipulations and locks of all kinds...if anyone were to suggest otherwise ,they would be flying in the face of the most essential and overwhelming evidence and realities to the contrary. Kipura warriors would rather die than return to slavery, and they resisted being enslaved for centuries...despite being colossally outnumbered and outgunned at literally every turn. Would claims made by the slaving agents of the Portuguese Brazilians saying that Kipura warriors routinely disarmed them, murdered them via weapon and hand to hand skill, and devised near magical means of escape be more credible as an explanation for their ability to repeatedly repel slaving European armies...or does the idea that our ancestors leaped into a roda and did flips until our slaving enemies became bedazzled by our acrobatics music and culture seem to be the more believable explanation for our legendary successes against the slavers?
I am not suggesting that you don't think that our Kipura ancestors DID NOT develop truly dazzling skills at self defense. I AM, however, directly denigrating practices that claim to teach Kipura yet utterly fail to address the reality that Kipura is a terrifyingly lethal martial art that can also be fun safe and is as supremely holistic as the Afrikan people and Afrikan culture which birthed it. The great, great sadness and tragedy is that the massively overwhelming amount of "Mestres" who claim to practice "the martial art of Capoeira" do nothing of the kind, and even believe that this martial art--world famous for its warriors that made a habit of repelling the most insurmountable odds with near sorcerous skill and aplomb--should NOT be practiced, thought of, or expressed as a martial art in any way, shape, or form. The historical record is invincibly clear on this point: OUR ANCESTORS DID NOT AND NEVER WOULD SHARE SUCH A PERSPECTIVE.
My perspective is substantially in alignment with what their actions and perspective have been unanimously shown to be over the millenia. I practice the martial art of my bloodkin and ancestors, and I have found that [ contrary to the lies of those who champion the nonmartial art that is the most prevalent form of practice and which I refer to as "Cardio Capoeira' ] every single aspect of culture, music, art, beauty, spirituality, and every other benefit even remotely associated with Afrikan martial practice has been AMPLIFIED to the nth degree by the martial practice that our ancestors considered essential to the overall practice of Kipura. In short? The removal of the martial aspects of Kipura prevents one from practicing Kipura. One is instead practicing a wonderful exercise flavored with martial dance and folkloric movements, very very similar to the practice of Taebo or Cardio Kickboxing to driving pulse pounding sweat and smile inducing musical accompaniment. With at least one exception: all carido boxers and cardio kickboxers know that they are NOT practicing the combat skills of boxers and kickboxers, and would never lay claim to same. Unfortunately...and I mean this with both rigor and without disrespect...Cardio Capoeiristas are so lost to genuine Kipura that they actually present themselves as practicing the same or inheriting the same martial lineage as Queen Nzinga, the Janga Angola most famously referred to as the "quilombo" Dos Palmares, etc. Cardio Capoeiristas laying dead serious claim to the warrior lineage and practice of genuine Kipura would be like people who practice the workout called INSANITY with Shaun T claiming that they are the genuine expression of the war arts practice and skills of THE NAVY SEALS.
I am not saying this to disrespect anyone ,but instead to emphasize the true historical record of Kipura and as genuine proof of my love of and love for this wonderful Afrikan martial art. Again...I can back up every syllable I have uttered here...and many thousands more that I haven't uttered here...with the most rigorously accurate, invincible and unyielding scientific data. There are those in this grupo that have likened my martial expression to "hot garbage". I merely smile at such statements, and take no umbrage. Were anyone to share the mat or roda with me and feel directly my skill, they would be compelled to instantaneously change their perspective. I have been evaluated by some of the greatest martial artists to walk this Earth...including Dan Inosanto, Diogenese Asahida [ the man who taught Anderson Silva the unique brand of MT that made him a terror during his first year as UFC champion ], Frank Shamrock, and many others. I have never ever been found wanting at any time, regardless of the quality and stiffness of opposition standing opposite me. Dan Inosanto has told me that I have the best fighting Kipura he has ever seen, and Mestre Amen Santo told me that I have that devastating fighting skill of "the old killer street style of Capoeira". I do not say this to name drop, or to in any way toot my own horn, so to speak. I simply say this by way of some small introduction of who I am, and to underscore the fact that I am neither new nor of average skill, but in fact possessed significantly above average skill due to a lifetime of rigorous, unforgiving training with the highest standards firmly set in place by my teachers. I am happily NOT a member OF ANY Capoeira organization nor do I wish to be part of ANY such organization; I practice the martial lineage established by my family. That is sufficient for me and my purposes. So please do not think that I am slighting this or that organization, or this or that Mestre, or that I covet the approbation of any Mestre, organization, or popular "style" of "Capoeira". I am merely glad to see a group like yours, Professora, and I am happy to share with all of you and learn from all of you for whatever brief time that I may.
Hermon Browne Yes Ras body slam them with the truth again ha ha take that June 26 at 5:28am · Like · 1
Tarzan Navalha funny thing is that theres some that dont even practice its traditionals. they don't even implement candomble or even santeria for that fact matter theyre one in the same.. most capoeiristas dont even know whos besouro lol. people sing cordao de ouro e besouro manganga, mora lemanja, malandragem and have no clue what theyre singing about.. now im not the best singer nor i dont sing so much, but i know wheres my spot, but i atleast know what these songsare about.. June 26 at 6:44am · Like · 1
Professora Amazonas GM Atacygym and Tarzan. There is so much to say to this "blog" of sort yet I will make an attempt to concisely respond to all parts. You speak "as a matter of factly" concerning capoeira (as you have tagged your name as such), capoeira groups in general and knowledge of history, movements, songs etc. from the perspective of a person whom has a system that was passed onto you from your martial lineage established by your family. Please define "legitimate cultural inheritors" by your standard. Is that you alone? You also addressed far too many practitioners present a non-contact cardio Shaun T insane Tae bo, yet I ask what are WE as consumers promoting/sharing through video, etc. No, not your point exactly. I'm challenging it all because the group/academies that I visit and teach at have no problem putting a foot, fist, elbow, knee, head, take-downs or anything else on an opposing force. Then again, I am, also, often referred to as "aggressive" so I may not be the one to have this conversation with. I have traveled, trained with many schools of thought in a few countries across the globe. Some media like pretty acrobatics. Some like contact. Some don't mind all of that and just don't want to be hurt. There are many counterattacks that I've learned that I don't put into practice in a game because again the opposer would A. no longer be alive or B. be purposely allowed to live and left to suffer. This information is passed onto a select group who can handle the responsibility of the aftermath of the actions. Yes, allow your mind to wander. These counterattacks are not only physical. Your historical name dropping is wholeheartedly supported and do not make mention of them as to keep this answer compacted. Those who've shared positive or more importantly constructive criticism of opinion of your martial strategy is great. I, personally, don't name drop. If you know me, you know me. I'm purposely vague. The internet is too large. Everyone is not in my corner. The socialization you speak of is in every martial art so I'm not too sure where you are going with that. Thank you for your compliments and attempts to clarify your position.
Tarzan, there is tradition and organization. Some don't know the traditions nor history behind that cool song that they heard on Youtube or someone else sang. You are absolutely right. That is for the teacher to (help) iron out those details. This is a direct example why I believe many people who are called instructor, professor and even mestre should be presented before a panel like doctoral candidates. Philosophy, historical and musical ability as well as passing on information is a must if the art is to continue to thrive in the centuries to come. BTW, I appreciate to your speaking of "some" as it is not all... As we know, all black men ... etc.. can be sooo absolute and we are larger than the confines that we linguistically place on each other.
Check out this discussion here:
https://www.facebook.com/atacxgym.capoeira/posts/593695310747581
Head Coach Ras finished with this:
Professora Amazonas Tarzan Navalha Terremoto Capoeira Мухаммад Абдуррахман John Kevin Ashton Nada Sin Usted G-roy Lilwilliestyle Innovation DeAngelo DeAngelo Ambulância Taylor Chayenne Amancio de Oliveira Elizabeth Rose Maria Domingeus Mariah Aprecida Aparecida Janaina Cassia Stefan FraserMatheus Brian Taqqee Khabir Mestre Amen Santo Hatombo and AMANI, all of Creation.
First? I want to thank you for engaging in this discussion, and doing so with equanimity...even though there are some areas that we seem to have both agreements and disagreements about. Far too many people I have had this discussion with have immediately blown a fuse at the very mention of insufficiently vibrant or wholly absent self defense practice in "Cardio Capoeira'. You did not, and I am glad for that. Now, on to address your response.
Professora, you ask an interesting question and make some commonly asserted comments regarding the allegedly elthal but virtually never seen self defense skills shown by people whom seem to be wholly invested in Cardio Capoeira exclusive to any other Capoeira endeavor.
I like the fact that you asked what I meant by the phrase "legitimate cultural inheritors" instead of assuming that I meant one or another particular definition. By 'legitimate cultural inheritors" I am referring to those of us of any race religion or creed...but most especially and most signally those of us rich in melanin and whom are phenotypical Afrikans...who practice, enjoy, transmit, and pledge to not only uphold but enrich the Afrikan martial lineage. Of course, the Afrikan martial lineage is the oldest in the history of humanity, and as such cannot possibly be limited to one person, family, ethnic group [ which is not the same as racial group ], country, or even one continent...as the sons and daughters of Afrika are literally dispersed around the globe.
The next comment you make is the beginning of a common refrain that I hear when discussion of the martial efficacy or complete lack thereof in the practice of what I call "Cardio Capoeira" is mentioned or debated, and that is the part of your response which reads:"...You also addressed far too many practitioners present a non-contact cardio Shaun T insane Tae bo, yet I ask what are WE as consumers promoting/sharing through video, etc. No, not your point exactly. I'm challenging it all because the group/academies that I visit and teach at have no problem putting a foot, fist, elbow, knee, head, take-downs or anything else on an opposing force..." Unfortunately, the academies that you mention are not only literally so rare that they hardly exist, their allegedly proficient self defense practice is virtually impossible for the average person to confirm...and almost never seen by the average martialartist of any stripe, when we look for it. Can you name the specific capoeira groups you are referring to? Do they have video of their skill with and practice of "putting a foot, fist, elbow, knee, head, take-downs or anything else on an opposing force..."? If not, that simply underscores my point to the degree that is essentially inarguable. Either this practice does not exist at all, or it's so rare that the overwhelming perception is that such Cardio Capoeira practices don't exist.
The very rarity of self defense practies in capoeira...when capoeira got its legendary reputation due to the near magical abilities of the warriors of both genders and even the children who practiced it against the most horrific odds and still succeeded...is both the proof of the fact that Cardio Capoeira is a non martial art that our Afrikan ancestors never ever ever practiced or condoned regardless of claims to the contrary and AND that claims that it is the genuine Afrikan martial arts self defense article or that it's the legit inheritor of same is an egregious lie and error that is most disrespectful of the genuine Afrikan martial lineage that it claims to uphold.
We do have the literal date and time of the approval of what later became Cardio Capoeira, as Cardio Capoeira is a government approved and certified, international friendly, tourist attracting, watered down version of the practices associated with Mestre Bimba's Regional and a particular interpretation of what became known in Brasil as Capoeira Angola.
The fact that Getulio Vargas...former Dictator of and President for life of Brasil, supporter of a centuries old ban against the genuine Afrikan martial art of Kipura, ardent believer in and practitioner of the highly racist Brasilian governmental program of "blanqueamiento"...approved this expression is all the proof that we need that Cardio Capoeira is not nor was it ever formed to be ANY MARTIAL ART, much less the legendary Afrikan Kipura warrior practice that terrified racists oppressors and the unjust worldwide. Getulio Vargas never approved of and would never legalize Kipura. It is he who both continued to outlaw Kipura and sought to replace it by allowing Mestre Bimba to only practice a 'sport" version of the Afrikan martial art of Kipura that helped to define Brazilian national identity as support for and adherence to the politics government and power of Getulio Vargas.
Getulio Vargas rightly suspected that both Mestre Bimba and Mestre Pastinha would seek to reintroduce the genuine Kipura under their "sportive" umbrella [ especially Mestre Bimba who for a time did just that and showed both his bravery and his malicia to be exceptional ], and that is why his government viciously persecuted both to such an extent that both mestres died in terrible health, financially broken, and abandoned en masse by their students.
Note that I didn't say that you DO NOT know of and practice with the people to whom you are alleging. What I AM saying is this: groups who practice the way that you allege are extremely, extremely rare. So rare, in fact, that the existence of such groups would lead to some form of minor celebrity status very swiftly in Capoeira and eventually martial circles. Witness the stir that Marcus Auerlio, Mutante, and several rich in melanin capoeiristas who have actually outperformed by quite a large margin BOTH Lelo and Mutante [ like Mestre Waldemar Santana and Ciriaco and others ] have caused with their MMA performances...win or lose. The reality is that THE GENERAL MASSES WOULD EAT CAPOEIRA ALIVE WITH HAPPYNESS were there ever to be establsihed a FUNCTIONAL grou pf schools that could teach HOW TO FIGHT AND THE ARTISTIC, CULTURAL, AND SPIRITUAL PRACTICES OF KIPURA as a whole.
I know this because not only is my Gym growing explosively but so are the popularity of my videos. I am regularly contacted by people across the globe on a daily basis who all gush: "THIS IS WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR!! I SAW A MOVIE/PRACTICE PARKOUR/LOVE EDDY GORDO AND WANTED TO LEARN REAL CAPOEIRA. I WENT TO THE LOCAL CAPOEIRA CLASS AND LEARNED NOTHING BUT EXERCISES SONGS DANCE AND ACROBATICS. THAT'S NOT WHAT I WANTED."
Simply by restoring Kipura to its martial roots, we will not only save Kipura but many of the other Afrikan martial arts from extinction, and we will simultaneously recover and spread much of the lost and/or insufficiently known and respected history of Afrika, and the world. We will literally be doing humantiy as a whole a much much needed labor that will bond us all the ore closely together due to the truth and community and power uncovered and shared..and the utter destruction of popular lies spread by those actually inimical to truth and both the stimulation of and bodning of humanity across all divisions and separations. In truth, the simple response and the common sense marketing approach needed to overcome the deliberately false, deliberately feckless, deliberately non-Afrikan face and fostered public image of Capoeira as NOT being for self defense is to simply show Capoeiristas practicing SELF DEFENSE with their Capoeira. Not just a COMBAT SPORT like MMA. We all know that COMBAT SPORTS DO NOT AND NEVER WILL equal self defense mandates nor the martial path. Professora, do you or anyone in your various groups with whom you have practiced have video of you teaching actual self defense with your Capoeira? Not roda centric movements. Not acrobatics. Specifically SELF DEFENSE sequences and techniques. I have hundreds, but I will share two right now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F9Hk-vZBXk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqW7-T6Wu80
I would certainly like to see the sparring and self defense practice that you allude to and specify that you and other schools have engaged in. Such practices imo should not only be common but also "no big deal" to share. We should be able to go online and see THOUSANDS of examples of genuine Kipura sparring, drilling, etc for self defense in the same way that we can see such for karate, MMA, boxing, wrestling, taekwondo, kickboxing, bjj, judo, etc etc. I have no problem sharing my self defense practice footage, using Kipura movements. The truth very honestly is that the overwhelmingly popular expression of "Capoeira" reflects beautiful bodies performing fluid dance like acrobatic movements with little to no functional self defense value, and this practice is accepted as not just the norm but even far worse THE STANDARD not just for Cardio Capoeira...who claim they are practicing THE MARTIAL ART of Kipura. This fact alone permanently condemns Cardio Capoeira and its adherents to the category of nonmartial art, because as we all know...any martial art requires self defense practice to be its central concern and expression, its primary purpose and reason for existence practice and application, for it to even be considered a martial art.
Furthermore, this non contact, non martial Cardio expression is the antithesis of what our Kipura ancestors did, extolled, and practiced. Please note that I am NOT advocating the removal of the other central elements to Afrikan martial practice: the songs, the specific unique [ but not at all mandatory to our ancestors ] use of the Hungu [ miscalled berimbau ], the roda, the spiritual practices that our brother Tarzan alluded to [ very, very accurately I might add ] in his outstanding post contributing to our discussion. In fact, in class I actually use the AFRIKAN names that my research has uncovered for the positions MISCALLED BY THEIR PORTUGUESE NAMES. For instance, the orixas are heavily associated with each position and movement in Kipura, and as such I refer to them by some of their more correct Yoruba names [ as Kipura is a composite Afrikan martial art with multiple roots across Afrika ],and use the INCORRECT Brazilian Portuguese terms almost exclusively for Youtube viewership.
With all of the above said, I am very glad to see that you Professora Amazonas refer to yourself as:"..."aggressive" so I may not be the one to have this conversation with..." because we are of like mind in that regard. Unfortunately, such attitudes as ours are definitely, definitely the infinitesimally small minority in the Cardio Capoeira community. [ Please recall that I don't consider myself as part of the Cardio Capoeira community, I am simply referring to the predominant mass of said community's clearly transmitted practices...which are absolutely contrary to both functional self defense and martial practice of any form. The simplest of Google sweeps WORLDWIDE will resoundingly confirm this fact ].
Despite the reality that our ancestors would abhor repugn and repel such practices as having nothing whatsoever to do with their martial art, the fact remains without any form of doubt that most people who claim to be Capoeiristas are in fact Cardio Capoeiristas who are utterly clueless of the genuine practice of Kipura. When I say most people, I mean to say with confidence that at least 95% of the people who enter Capoeira schools and stay long enough to advance a rank or two DO NOT WANT to learn self defense. They either entered not wnating to learn self defense or were prpagandized by their Cardio Capoeira Mestres...who also don't know and don't want to learn self defense, and who also think that Capoeira is not supposed to be used for self defense, even though they are quick to spout that propaganda about how deadly Capoeira is BUT THEY NEVER EVER SHOW IT. That's the worst part of it all. 95% of so-called "Capoeira Mestres" HAVE NO CLUE HOW TO PRACTICE SELF DEFENSE USING THEIR CAPOEIRA ARSENAL BECAUSE THEY HAVE NEVER DONE SO...AND DON'T WANT TO LEARN HOW TO DO SO.
This reality is certainly the death blow to Capoeira, because there are simply not enough people like those who populate my Gyms to perpetuate and spread the actual martial art of Kipura...as opposed to the practice of Cardio Capoeira...as time marches on. I agree that all aspiring to be Mestres should publically face and pass a gauntlet of tests: martial skills in every range from standign to grappling inclusive of weapons and knowledge of the Afrikan roots of all of the subcategories and arts that combined to form Kipura aka "Capoeira", teaching skills, knowledge of history, musical and language skills, nutrition, herbal and healing skills [ as our ancestors mandated along with all of the aforementioned skills ] as well as bear specific academic and social requirements [ in depth knowledge of and respect for the Afrikan martial arts as a whole and the Afrikan experience both within and without Afrika, the mandate to contribute to their immediate community using their Capoeira knowledge and their community service which is a part of some of the requirements of nurturing that both Osun and Iemanja have been known to require and which dovetails with the well known Afrikan mandate that "responsiblity lays upon each and every person in every village to raise each and every child", etc ]. I truly hope that you take it upon yourself to share with us whatever self defense techniques that you deem acceptable to share. And I would very much like to be a email buddy of yours. My email is atacxgymcapoeira@gmail.com. I don't know your email. Please feel free to email me at your leisure.
And here's some replies to it:
Tarzan Navalha: ahhhhhh i love these type of conversations!!! where we can all exchange knowledge! Professora Amazonas idk if you remember me, i was in lua's batizado, we were eating afterwards and you cut my ass saying if i have smelly feet lol!!.... but look this is how i see things, and before anything its no way shape or form am i trying to offend anyone that sees this post! so please anyone reading this, read twice before you reply to me, because i will go haywire! lol...moving on... capoeira is a very unique martial art, am i right? But problem is, we as capoeiristas dont have so much information on it because the portuguese burned alot of info on it, and many powerful mestres took their knowledge to the grave.. but what do we know? it came from africa, IT IS a martial art, it is a hybrid art, the music derived from the beautiful candomble! what we do know, is that through out time it changed just like any other art sadly. Times changed and thats the big problem, things intend to be forgotten... now myself icant disrespect anyone at all, nor cant be a hypocrit because im under capoeira brasil, but it is true most dont practice the self defense. like life, i feel as if capoeira wants me to grab this techniques and teach myself self defense.. sounds cheesy i know... but i asked my self, why not take the upportunity? even though i know its not the same as back in the days, i have to take what i can and adapt it.. now i know it sounds cheesy lol, but i feel its a spiritual path, because i believe in old souls, reincarnation, my ancestors want me in this path, to know. because of capoeira, i have gotten closer to my ancestors, with santeria ( although its one in the same with candomble).
Now this is my own personal belief, no one has to take this in, but to me, roda is where to feel the energy celebration, know your movements, having fun like our ancestors and becoming more MALANDRO. sad to say most group that are contemporanea dont even practice or play angola. not saying all dont, just some like i said. BUT we are not in a slave era anymore, so we SHOULD train its SELF DEFENSE machanism! with and without the ginga. because we wont know when we have to use it lets be real. Along the line this is where many lack of and dont even boter with. ITS the history of capoeira. many annoy me because they talk about the rich culture of it but dont even know its damn history like really? lol ( Nada Sin Usted). I only have 6 years practicing this art, and i know more than even some mestres dont even know like sseriously some dont even who the hell is santana, or besouro... We dont have many info on capo, but we can take in what we can and connect the dots like AtacxGym Capoeira does and put me on so much.it saddens me, how we remove candomble, but add on maculele that half dont even know nothing about it. funny thing is , mestre bimba never applied maculele to his art. Even mestre accordeon and mestre bimba son ( i forgot his name) mentioned how capoeira changed, how its not like back in the days. that most look like a robot doing the ginga,,,funny when you think about it, im doing what mestre bimba was doing. adapting his capoeira. at times i think its sad a few me like have to go through this in order to know its true self defense but things happen for a reason you know? All i am implying is that WE SHOULD NOT FORGET ITS ROOTS, WE SHOULD ADMIT WE DID WE NEED TO APPLY ITS SELF DEFENSE MECHANISM BACK. because lets be real, thats the one main reason why capoeira was made! i find it insulting where my ancestor put their blood sweat and tears to their freedom. where there were many sacrifices to win their FREEDOM! they didnt win their freedom by jumping around, throwings flips! NO! IT is part of capoeira, but used properly! again im not here to change anyones mind, just putting my experiences out there which i really never do because it exposes me. im not having any maladragem. but hey oh well lol.. @professora amazonas are you initiated??
Hermon Browne: Yes Tarzan Navalha atacxgym capoeira i agree the thing with our story is that when you start looking into afrikan H I S STORY given to us by destructive racist invaders you uncover 1 lie or untruth underneath you find another and another. its his tory not our story so its this world view that is put out to the masses in general round the world its only now. with movies like hidden colours 1 2 3 that this view is being successfully challenged.
me i have been training capoeira 4 yrs first yr in 1 academy now atacxgym online i got the1set ras released its like i knew the moves allready i just needed my dna awakened with the right sequences i find more moves release from inside every time i train now it s is a deep connection and the thing that made me start was the film besouro and i found out who he was and the role of the ancestors had in his life all the way through kipura is a very deep martial art with a huge array of techniques and i find like with moves like the power frame strong like ogun the afrikan orisha for war and a stuff now if you talk to some real nigerians they will tell you about orishas dont ramp with them its real they back home have seen the power of these beings supernatural stufc they get scared but all i know is your ancestors wont harm you
Hermon Browne: Oh i got cutt off battery s dying ill continue later ok
So there you have it, folks. No Insults, no "My Mestre's better than yours", or any of that kind of crap. just 2 people who had a difference of opinion (which wasn't that different after all if you read all that), who talked it out maturally, like the warriors they are.
And both Preofessora Amazonas and Head coach Ras were dropping some jewels of wisdom there!
Anyway, I thought I'd get this copied and recorded, as an example of what it's like to have a REAL discussion about the martial arts... and not the mean, nasty character asassination type crap that happens in all too many M.A. discussion forums nowadays...
And to preserve those JEWELS!!!
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